Curse

Prince Rurik · Sep 26, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I'm here to chat with you about a little something - I know, it's a pretty aggressive looking title up there, isn't it? Let's just chat a bit and maybe we'll end up seeing eye to eye.

I've been around a while. Remember your first day exploring Tyria? I helped you thump those level 5 Charr, down by the gate. Those were the days. I remember the brightness in your eyes, the way we ran through the green fields, past the bull and my darling Althea. Back then nothing could stand in our way. I remember telling people, "Pair up! You can't do everything yourself!"

Then came the searing, and the world got ugly. We banded together, you and I, and some buddies of ours - Alesia, Orion, XxX Legolazz XxX and I Pwn Noobz, and we taught those Charr a lesson. Sure, I was a little headstrong, and might have been a bit impulsive, but you loved it, loved rushing headlong into danger at my side, backed up by your trusty healer, and the mage who loved to celebrate a good battle with a firestorm.

You've outgrown me. I've stayed in Ascalon, helping new player after new player on the road to becoming a hero - much as I helped guide you, once upon a time. XxX LegolazzXxX moved on too, never see him, but I do get to spend a lot of time with Stefan, Orion, Alesia and the gang. They miss you, as do I. Hehe, I still remember Alesia running across the sky to get back to where we wiped, or getting stuck on a rock (she's cute once you get by the hair thing, but not the brightest bulb in the drawer). Remember those days?

Now, I know that there's no room for me any more; my time has fled, and I relive it only in the early days of Tyria - but why don't you bring Stefan along? Why is Orion stuck here with me? He could be at your side, celebrating your victories with his pyrotechnic exultations! But no, your old friends sit alone, drinking their sorrows away.

Why? Because of them. Sure, the "heroes" sound good, from a practical standpoint. You get to decide their skill sets, order them around, like a bunch of robots. That's all they are, robots. Orion won't throw heal party, but he has principles. He's a fire mage, and dangit, he'll rain fire on Charr Corpses long after the battle's done!

Frankly, some of it is personal. I know my guys - Stefan and I hang out in presearing withthe bear hunters chugging ales pretty often for example - and I like travelling with them. Instead you drag me out with some bird-guy, a centaur pyromaniac and a guy named "so sucky" - of course I'm upset. But also it's about being fair to the henchmen. They work long hours, have helped you through the game time and time again, have died for you, only to be cast aside because of some new fangled bots.

Say no to replacing your hard working comrades at arms with programmable bots!
Let your old friends know you value them. Bring Alesia, Orion or Stefan out with you, or even your old pal "I Pwn Noobz". Take a chance on a PuG!

Say no to heroes, say yes to your old companions, your pugs, and the camaraderie of gaming.

And if you have time, come by Ascalon. I promise not to run too wildly into the fray (except in Nolani Hard Mode. Come on, it's just too cool).

Peace, your old friend with the flaming noob sword,

Prince R.

Deadlyjunk · Sep 26, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Hmm, I'm only posting because the title reminds me of the Stranglers song "No More Heroes". Other than that, very romantic post, but really, considering the multi-page war currently raging one post down about having MORE heroes, not the best time for this discussion.

And btw, Koss's hairdo is the funniest set of pixels in the game, so no, /notsigned

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Nice attempt at an RPGish post OP. Very cute, but on to business:

Heros allow players to accomplish goals that were previously unattainable using henchmen. They add depth to the players understanding of the knowledge of the various classes and as such i would like to promote my own thread.... I you would like to have the OPTION of having 7 heros in a party available to you please give your comments here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10202643

Prince Rurik · Sep 26, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

It's precisely because of the other thread that I started this one. I wouldn't be surprised if it jolts Stefan and Alesia to write in as well, and even Mhenlo and Cynn will be worried about not getting into parties anymore.

Seven heroes would be a bad thing for all henchmen, as well as for gamers in general. I bet the henchman/NPC local 259 will be up in arms over it. Oh yeah, they're unionized these days - that's the only thing keeping heroes in line. Without the strength of the union behind us Anet would have given in to the demands for more heroes long ago. That's the real reason why they can't go to 7 heroes. The merchants and traders would walk out, the economy would collapse. Heck, even some of the big bosses are in the union - Mallyx would simply not show up to work, you'd find him picketing in front of the ToA.

Bottom line, even if you don't care about how it affects the henchmen, think about how it affects the gaming community. Sure, the game's easier now, but is that really a good thing?

Antheus · Sep 26, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

You might as well say, play with less party members, or without armor, or something.

Henchmen as they are have pathetic skillsets. Orison and HB spam does not equal healing.

As for PUGs...

How am I supposed to complete chained and cross-linked quests (hundreds of them) across 4 continents with PUGs?

The way the game has changed it's impossible to play without heroes. Even if playing with other people, waiting for that missing member for 2 hours is not fun.

If I want authentic PUG experience, I go do "LFG Duncan" for 2 hours.

The game has changed. People have learned to play. The challenge of old areas is gone. I'll play with guild group. If that one isn't full, We'll use heroes. If PUG isn't full, we'll use heroes. If I have absolutely no other choice, I'll use henchies.

But personally, I don't enjoy having party members with 2 useless skills only. Players or henchies. Sorry, but no dice here.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Rurik

Bottom line, even if you don't care about how it affects the henchmen, think about how it affects the gaming community. Sure, the game's easier now, but is that really a good thing?

Thats precisely it... the game isnt easier... is it easier to manage one skillbar or to micromanage 4? or for that matter to manage 8?

To make an effective 8 man balanced build one would have to have intimate knowlege of each of the classes to be used... is this an easily attainable goal?

Craywulf · Sep 26, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I'm more likely to agree with a limit on AI support, whether its heroes or henchmen. I just think too much AI support negates any challenge Guild Wars intended.

If you feel the need to fill your entire roster with AI support then you have serious problem playing the game. The best solution would be to keep experimenting with your skillbar. Also keep in mind that a good player is always tweaking it's build, especially when the circumstances call for it.

Don't forget to tweak your Hero's build too, besides having the right heroes to work the builds.

Ever hear the phrase "It is the quality rather than the quantity that matters". or "less is more". If not then please think about it before suggesting 7 heroes.

BlackSephir · Sep 26, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I'll sign only after you'll find a way to remove stupid players from GW. And after you'l find a way to fill every area with normal players.

Isileth · Sep 26, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Yeah screw casual players, they only make up the majority of the playerbase. Who needs their money?

Takida · Sep 26, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Good thread, Even tho im not really a pver.. i agree with you.. i pvp most of the time, But since its RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed now i started to pve again, I made a Prophecies character, and its like... No ppl to play with, Only way to complete it is to get runned,Cuase every1 is using their heroes.... Heroes Ruined both PvE / PvP imo.. Guild Wars was fun cause of team work, But yeah... What is guild wars now? Some1 give me some answers please..

Epinephrine · Sep 26, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I'm going to side with the Prince. Not surprising, we've both been playing since betas.

First off - removing heroes doesn't mean "never change henchman skillbars". They could be improved.

Secondly, ANet introduced a fairly powerful party search feature. It could be further improved, allowing you to list multiple quests even, or expanded to advertise across multiple towns/search towns.

Third, the illusion that nobody is playing and the difficulty finding groups is caused precisely by the existence of heroes.

It's ironic that a party search function arrived after heroes made it obsolete.

Isileth · Sep 26, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Takida you are in the oldest game shortly after the release of a new expansion. Most people are in GW:EN. There are a lot of people in every outpost in GW:EN right now.

Its now possible for people in your situation with no one to play with to complete the game using heroes so they have a decent team. Removing this would be very stupid, so many areas are dead that using h/h is the only way to go.

PureEvilYak · Sep 26, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Hmm.... You know what you take away if you remove heroes from the game? The last element of skill we have left in PvE.

Now, its been such a long time since guild wars was released, and gradually, the skill element has left PvE. Gone are the days when skills were all shiny and new, and you could experiment with different combinations to make an interesting build. I mean, you can, of course. But most good builds have already been though of (yes, I know I may be leading myself into a "everything that can be invented has been invented" situation). There'll be a bit of experimenting with the new PvE skills for a while, but that will die down. And even then, you don't actually have to make up new builds, with the wiki as a source of good ones. So thats the character building element of skill gone.

There was also a fairly recent time when a successful vanquish had to be played out well, otherwise your party would get 60dp and you would fail. However, with the addition of powerstones, this chance of failure no longer applies, if you're willing to grind for cash. You still have to be good, but not as good.

So, now, the only element of skill left is the plan. Working out a team that fits together like a well oiled machine, rather than 8 separate pieces rolling about ineffectually. This will always be there for a team of 8 players, but henchies just don't work that way, so without heroes, if you're on your own, this element of skill is removed. I don't want that to happen.

Mineria · Sep 26, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

3 heroes is good enough, not less, not more.

BTW. Prince Rurik was dead the last time Ive met him.

bhavv · Sep 26, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Why was the other thread locked then and this crap is still open?

Henchmen suck, no one cares about their involvement with the story when they have charge and healing breeze. If you actually prefer using henchmen over heroes you are a very very bad GW player and can rot in the game not being able to accomplish anything since you have no idea how to play it.

Keep blaming heroes for the fact that no one wants to group with you, rather then the fact that you carry mending and healing breeze on your warrior.

/this thread phails.

The reason no one is playing prophecies with you is because they are all in GW:EN now, or playing HM. TBH at anyone still playing prophecies now on NM - LoL - if you actually expect to make full player groups in prophecies for normal mode, and blame not being able to on heroes, I pity your brain.

Kind of reminds me when I'm in a proph outpost with 3 heroes setting their skill bars. Invite from a lvl 14 monk with players from lvl 12-15 (Yes there was a pug!). I get a whisp, Kick your heroes and join us.

I feel like hitting my head against a brick wall in order to bring myself down to the same level of intelligence as these players.

BTW people actually starting new characters in proph CANT actually use heroes for the first half of the game anyway. People with heroes have most likely already completed proph + factions on their characters that have full access to heroes.

Whirlwind · Sep 26, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

More hero slots please

Vinraith · Sep 26, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

I stopped playing the game because henchmen became inadequate. I picked it up again because Nightfall added heroes. I never PUGed, because I don't believe in playing with people like the OP, who feel their enjoyment of a game is more important than mine.

All that said, I'd laugh my ass off if they removed heroes and henchies from the game. All the PUG crowd would be thrilled, up until they realized they were completely alone in district 1 in LA, Kamadan, EotN, and everywhere else. Remove people's ability to supplement with the AI, make this an all PUG game, and you'll abruptly find there's no one playing it anymore. Have fun grouping with your fellow selfish twits, if you can find them.

Oh and btw, if you're going to close the other thread, this one has to go too.

MithranArkanere · Sep 26, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Go to maguuma jungle and look for a party there...

Oh! No one!

Heroes stay.

genofreek · Sep 27, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Keep the heroes. I'd like to have at least 3 people on my team that aren't gonna draw cocks on the compass or BS about how sad Britney's career is these days when we're trying to get through Hard Mode. I still PUG occasionally, but more often than not I bring back stories of Mo/Rs bringing level 5 pets and Comfort Animal into Ring Of Fire missions.

Plus, as noted, everyone's in GW:EN. You're just not going to have bountiful bored Level 20s dotted across the outposts, ready and willing to lend a hand while they wait for the next new thing. They're already in it.

Archer_Of_Vulpes · Sep 27, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

I AGREE!!!! heroes are gay, they make nobody want to play together, and people are forgetting this is a CORPG / MMORPG and i almost never see people teaming anymore.

if i could have it my way i would have them shut off al the NF and factions servers and FORCE EVERYONE TO LOVE TYRIA AGAIN!